Danielle DePalma

production Manager,
The Bowery Ballroom

“Personally, I would like to see a huge shift in priority away from a capitalist culture in music…”

May 15, 2020
interview by Madeleine Campbell for Women in Sound #7
portrait by Maggie Negrete
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How and when did music become a part of your life?
I think it started with my mom. My mom worked for Warner Bros. when I was little. We would get all the test pressings from the record labels and different soundtracks from movies. I remember “Gremlins” was really big. So it was always around the house when I was little.

Then there was this choice around [age] eight or so, where I had a chance to choose between martial arts classes or guitar lessons. I remember looking at magazines and going into Tower Records and seeing all the musicians on the record covers and saying, “Yes! Absolutely guitar lessons.” The guitar lessons turned into playing in bands as a teenager and making the choice, when I went to college, to study that versus a more traditional liberal arts medium. 

Where did you go to school?
I went to SUNY Purchase. 

When did you transition into live sound? 
When I was in college, it became a conscious thing. We had a very DIY student-run facility set inside of an airplane hangar. We called it The Stood. [laughs] There was a performing arts venue. It was probably a 300-cap space. Lots of little rooms with different offshoots of visual art hanging all over the place. There were tons of skate ramps floating around. Every once in a while, we were lucky enough and pulled in enough money to have bands come in and play. Some were touring bands and some were bands who were part of our program who wanted to have a show. For the last couple of years in college, I was the production manager of that venue. It was fun. I followed the track from there.

That sounds dreamy. I would have loved having a place like that in college. 
I totally romanticized it. It was so much fun. I learned a lot from it. The sound booth was its own huge separate room. I’d never do this now — the mix position was horrible — but you were basically on scaffolding. It was this old Soundcraft console. You had this plexiglass window that you had to pull aside to see out to the stage. You had to stick your neck out to really even mix or understand what it sounded like out there. Behind you there was this huge workspace, which was great. You had people learning to solder for the first time, building circuit boards, noise musicians building their own theremins and synthesizers. Lots of composition and production majors building their own guitars. 

So fast forward and years later you’re currently the production manager at The Bowery Ballroom. What exactly does being a production manager actually entail? Perhaps as compared to a front of house sound engineer?
It’s just expanding the bubble a bit more. Instead of just focusing on audio, my job encompasses audio, video, staging, backline and lighting. I’m thinking about the full scope of a concert production. 

Not only are you thinking about those elements, you’re also thinking about the schedule of the day, how much time goes into getting a show up and running, making everyone feel comfortable. You’re thinking about how it’s going to get to you in the first place — what vehicles is an artist traveling in and what concessions do we have to make for that? You’re thinking about the amount of general labor required. In addition to technical expertise, there’s always some muscle involved actually getting big cases of equipment in and through the door. 

Then there are the things that don’t get talked about enough that are so extremely important, which is everyone’s health and wellbeing. Is everyone eating enough? Do they have enough hours in the day to accomplish what needs to get done and also have adequate breaks? Does everyone feel comfortable in the realm of help that they’re able to give? Do people feel good about the work they’re putting in and what’s generally going on? 

I also deal with the standard production advancing: making sure everyone has the correct information about our venue that they need and that we have as much info as is needed about what the artist is going to bring with them. This is where it helps to have knowledge about lighting and staging, too. For bigger shows, it’s especially important to know the physical dimensions of the space so you can ensure everything an artist wants to bring actually fits on the stage. I wear a couple extra hats, too, dealing with artist hospitality and some occasional household tasks. So there’s a lot there. And after all of that, then you get to play with audio. 

What are your favorite parts of your job?
My amazing team, first and foremost. From experience, both as a member of a house team and a touring team, I can tell you that the crew that you’re with makes all the difference. Attitudes and how you approach a situation makes a world of difference in whether or not you can actually survive the job. That’s something I’m eternally grateful for, the fact that New York has such an amazing pool of engineers and the fact that people are game to work at a venue like ours and have a lot to offer and enjoy what they do. 

I love that the job offers me the flexibility to be able to mix, as well. I don’t think it would be quite as rewarding if I wasn’t able to be creatively involved. 

Because some production managers assume a strictly managerial role and aren’t actively involved as a technician in the various shows. 
Correct. In larger venues or arena tours, for example, the production manager and the front of house engineer will likely be two different people. 

Whether it was on the road or at a home venue, tell me about a show that was especially fulfilling. 
Oh, there are so many.

I can imagine. 
I think I would have to say it was the very first time I was asked on board to assist and shadow the Florence and the Machine crew. That was a really long time ago. It was well before I was tech-ing at Bowery Ballroom. I remember loving it for many reasons, the first being that it was such a definitive decision for me. I remember thinking, OK, this is what I want to do. I want to go out on these kinds of concerts and be a part of this level of production and be on certain teams like this.

I had been looking up who was doing that, finding out who were the touring concert production managers or monitor engineers. I realized that the production manager for Florence’s tour was this amazing guy named Steve Gordon who also went to my college. This was years before I did, but I thought, OK, there’s a possible in. Through reaching out and meeting him, he introduced me to Ian Laughton, who was Florence’s front of house engineer. He was like, “We’ve got this string of New York shows — a few promo things and some late night television. Then we have a show at Jones Beach [Theater].” So I got to hang out and be a runner for those shows. I remember my jaw dropping when we went to Jones Beach as I saw everything coming together — seeing the lighting rig get flown at 8:00 a.m. and seeing the PA go up around 9:00 a.m. and seeing the whole stage get spiked with tape for where all the decking and props would go. I remember waking Ian up from a nap on the bus because I was just so excited and had so many questions. 

There was this moment when we were going through soundcheck and I was shadowing Ian at front of house. I looked to my left and Florence was there with her arms stretched out like she’s an airplane, just floating through the seats of the coliseum. It looked very blissful. The show went off and it sounded great and looked amazing. That was really the catalyst for me to say, I can do this, I can get there. I’m so grateful for that experience. 

That’s incredible. I find that a lot of the most talented and in-demand engineers are often the most gracious when it comes to sharing knowledge and guidance. 
Agreed. 

I know you primarily as a production manager and a front of house sound engineer, but I know you also have experience as a lighting designer and mixing monitors. Do you feel most connected to any one of those roles?
I think monitors, if I had to pick a favorite. 

Really?
I know! [laughs] That’s kind of a curveball. 

What do you like about mixing monitors?
I love working for the band first and foremost. I love making an incredible group of musicians feel comfortable on stage. 

A lot of tours that I’ve taken, I’ve been fortunate enough to do them because I actually wanted to and not purely for financial reasons. I feel fortunate that I’ve enjoyed the music and wanted to see it through. Those are the tours where you start to speak the same language as the band and connect in an emotional way. I love the nuances of mixing monitors. It keeps you flying by the seat of your pants. You’re right there with them. 

I guess there’s the added bonus of not having an artist's manager or someone’s parents or audience members tapping on your shoulder at front-of-house giving you their unsolicited mix critiques.
Ugh! Yes. I’d so much rather mix for the band than any number of inebriated audience members or someone’s manager or random megafan. I should say there are some truly great managers out there and they’ve learned and loved the band and worked with them day in and day out for a long time. There are those managers who come from a long musical background. Those people exist and are wonderful and I don’t mean to downplay the work they do. But yes, you will also run into people from these schools that churn out this capitalistic music management class and they have no knowledge of audio and it feels like they’ve come into it for reasons that are really strange to me. 

You’ve mentioned the benefits of feeling connected to the artists you’re working with and being on the same page about how everyone is feeling. Which artists that you’ve worked with have you felt especially in tune with? 
Hmm. I’ve worked with many wonderful people, but I have to say Sadie DuPuis of Speedy Ortiz and Sad13, first and foremost. 

Ah, yes! I’m a huge fan of hers! 
She’s the best. She’s a phenomenal musician and songwriter. She does so much amazing work for her communities in general and within both of her bands. She has an incredible way of touring and finding out ways to do it sustainably. Sure, there are some long stretches where it can be tough because it’s still a punk, DIY dynamic and you’re playing lots of clubs, but with her, it was always genuinely fun. We always ate the most amazing food — very vegan-focused. She has an amazing network of friends all over the place and a great support network that I’ve learned so much from. You get to see so much more of a city when you’re rolling through town and you’re part of a tour like that. 

Another person who comes to mind is Sharon Van Etten because of our history. I haven’t really worked with her for very long — it’s little sub gigs here and there — but the New York scene I’ve been a part of knew Sharon growing up into herself musically. I love seeing people rise. They play Mercury Lounge and then move up to the Bowery Ballroom circuit, and then upwards to circuits of bigger and bigger tours and venues. Finally getting to be a part of it on her side of things is special. We’ve had some amazing talks about motherhood and starting a family and what it’s like to live in New York and her incredible band.

What do you see as one of your biggest strengths in what you do? 
Oh gosh. I feel like a perpetual student. I’d say doing what I can to always preserve the human side of this work. 

I like that. What do you mean by that? 
Recognizing that, like many jobs, this is individuals working with other individuals. Not getting too wrapped up in the gear and what the genre of music is and everything needing to be perfect. A show is one day out of your life, but I think treating people with dignity is what will keep us going in the long term. I dunno, it’s a tough question for me. 

Well, having worked with you, I absolutely agree with that. Seeing the way you communicate with artists has totally informed the way I do. You definitely make people feel comfortable and at ease. 
Nice. That’s good feedback to hear.

And I’ll always remember what you told me at my first training shift at Bowery —  
Uh oh. What did I say? [laughs]

You talked about how above any technical skill or any previous venue or touring experience or whatever, the most important thing we can do as a production staff is greet everyone who walks through the doors with kindness and make sure they feel comfortable and welcomed. 
Oh good. Yeah, that is very, very important. And I think our team does a really good job of reflecting that. 

OK, more of a practical question: What advice would you give to an artist who’s either touring for the first time or is on a support tour performing in much larger venues than they’re used to? I mean specifically, what are the most efficient ways for an artist to communicate with a venue manager or production manager about their upcoming shows? 
I’d break that up into two categories. When you’re the support band on a tour, I’d start by reaching out to the headliner’s artist management or tour management or whoever’s info you know. Build your road family. That includes the day-to-day artist management, the tour management and the band themselves. 

Have a good bit of organization. That means having a stage plot, knowing what vehicle you’d like to travel in, how many people will be with you, how much merch you’re going to have. Lay all that out and try to set up a meeting or at least phone call with the headliner’s people. It’s important to actually talk as humans. Emails can sometimes dig us deeper into a hole, get us into our own heads a bit, have us stressing about things we shouldn’t be stressing over. It really is their show that you’ve been asked to be a part of, so follow their lead. They will likely make a schedule for the day. They may tell you to adhere to that or they may give you venue contacts and tell you to do your own advancing. Either way, you’ve made contact with the people you need to. 

And onto the second category, if you’re doing your own advancing as part of someone else’s tour or are advancing your own shows for the first time, that same level of organization applies. Know how many people are traveling with you. Get an accurate stage plot and input list together. You can use that to expand upon anything I should know — if you’re bringing a sound engineer with you, if you’re bringing any consoles with you. Know what vehicle you’ll be traveling in and everything related to merch. From there, if a show’s been booked through a booking agent, they should have a compiled list of venue contacts and you can reach out to them from there. Start with an email. Spell out the date of your upcoming show. Date formats are written differently in different parts of the world. Put that and your band name in the subject line along with the city and venue name and the word “advance.” The initial email could be as simple as, I’d like to get the ball rolling here, or, if you’re ready and have that information already compiled, you can say, Hey! I’m reaching out to give you some information about my band and am hoping to get some in return. Here’s who we are and what we’ve got. Can you let us know the following things? 

Have a band account that everyone can access. I’ve seen people use Slack, MasterTour, Google Calendars. Make sure everyone is on the same page for what’s happening that day. 

Anyone who is interested in learning more about production advancing should check out www.tourmgmt.org. They’re doing a great webinar series during this period of quarantine that really breaks down the basics of tour management from the perspective of someone who’s just starting out all the way up to somebody who wants to be a super pro tour manager. They have templates for you to download that can show you how you should structure getting your tour ready and how you can build Excel spreadsheets to organize all the various information you’ll be receiving from venues. 

This feels like a strange question to ask in light of how our industry is impacted by Covid-19, but what changes or shifts would you like to see take place within the audio and live concert industry? 
That is a funny one. Everything’s taken a pause but the status quo really wasn’t so great for a lot of people. It’s a conversation we’re trying to touch upon as a community while also figuring out surviving individually and navigating what’s going on and when we’ll be able to work again. 

Personally, I would like to see a huge shift in priority away from a capitalist culture in music, which now seems to be more entertainment than music performance, at least in our type of venue and in the level of concert touring I find my colleagues at and that I see with lots of friends and coworkers who come through. But a shift more towards performance for the love of music. 

I want engineers to take on a tour because they really like the music and feel like they can actually benefit the musicians and can make a great-sounding mix and that it will be creative and enriching and fun for them.

I want an industry that supports the idea that incredible musicians who know their craft really well get up on stage and perform and that is enough. Especially at our level of club touring, you don’t need a video wall. You don’t need the extra lights. You don’t need a balloon drop or a confetti cannon. People can come to a show because they love music and they love connecting in this live way and you can perform your songs as you like to and that is enough. 

To speak to that more, when you start adding those extra levels of production, either to mask a performance — and again, I’m talking about a small club level, not an arena where you get an 80-foot stage to design as you see fit — you are cutting into the artist’s bottom line. 

What I’ve been starting to see is that there’s this rapid growth and this idea that if technology can solve a problem, you don’t need a person. If you have a monitor console with instant recall, you don’t need a monitor engineer. 

Oh god. That’s scary. 
Right? If you’re allowed to bring your own front of house console and save digital snapshots for each song, then maybe you can also tour-manage or sell merch or run the meet and greet because all you have to do is turn it on and it does the same thing each night. I’d like to see a huge shift away from that, putting the value back into people and building a musical family. 

And in regards to Covid-19, until this bill was passed, freelance employees couldn’t claim unemployment. I’d like to see investment go back into touring crews so that they can have paid time off and sick leave and insurance so they can get treated on the road should something happen. So that they can make a decent living wage. I can’t tell you how many people that I know had to come off the road for a physical illness or a mental illness or for something happy like someone getting pregnant. They’re an amazing engineer and they want to have a kid. Support them in that life. That’s a financial investment. 

What’s one thing you’ve learned that you would tell yourself 10 years ago? 
I’d tell myself to slow down a bit. I’d tell myself to value my contributions as part of the team. I used to get really hung up on a show going bad, both running sound but also playing in bands. I’d hold the weight of the whole band or the whole performance on my shoulders and want to give up so many times. Take a step back and realize you’re part of the whole. Check in with the whole more regularly. It’s a beautiful thing to be part of that whole.
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